May
30
2013

Another OVERLOAD Experience

162 comments written by Joshua Trentine

Over the years we’ve had a number of people share their OVERLOAD experience.  We want to thank Owen Drolet for sharing his.

Owen Drolet

Owen Drolet

Having been unable to attend The Future of Exercise conference last fall, my wife Roxanne and I were determined to visit Overload as soon as we could in order to try the various TSC machines as well as the rest of the dynamic line.  But, having recently opened our own facility, The Strongworks, in West Hartford, CT, we were too busy building the business to come up with a serious plan and time flew by. Then I purchased the DVDs of the conference when they came out in March, watched them all immediately and decided the presentation by Gus was where my wife should start (while my business partner, she is not involved in any of the training and a lot less obsessed about all this stuff than me).  As soon as it was over, she turned to me and said, “Get in touch with Josh, we need to get out there sooner rather than later.”  So, I let Josh know what we were looking to get out of a visit, settled on a price for what they would be providing, and before we knew it we were on our way to Cleveland.

One of our main goals was to experience as many of the feedback systems as possible, both dynamic and static, with the potential plan of purchasing either the iPOPD or the iMulti to augment our current machines and, more crucially, to use as a teaching tool for our clientele and in our own training.  But we also wanted to experience what a first time Overload client would encounter during an initial consult.

We arrived at Overload at 7am on a Wednesday, and were soon in an office with Josh, going over what a new client would hear, starting with the Preliminary Considerations for Exercise.  As he went through the list he would stop occasionally and come out of character, as it were, to speak to us instructor to instructor, explaining the underlying logic and timing of the information conveyed.  (It was then that he would typically stop to eat some of the raw oysters he had brought along for breakfast – I’m guessing real first time clients don’t get to see that…)  It was a really useful demo and I was glad to see it closely mirrored what I tell my new clients.  Next we went off to begin a slightly modified initial consultation-style workout, with Roxanne being put through the paces first.  We chose to do it this way partly so I could observe Josh’s instruction while I was still fresh, and to spare my ego – Josh pointed out that when he had done this with couples in the past, the woman typically performed better.  Having trained my wife for a long time, I didn’t doubt him.  We were both a bit nervous, not unlike Dr. McGuff, who described his apprehension before working out with, as he put it, “such well-known Form-Nazis” – fortunately we wouldn’t be doing it in a crowded ballroom like poor Doug.

First up was the leg press with feedback.  After getting Roxanne fitted and set, Josh instructed her to build up force such that the line produced on the graph moved upwards at a 45-degree angle.  Once her force matched that of the weight stack, movement would commence.   I’m proud to say that she nailed the build up, producing a perfectly angled line.  She then put in a solid performance following Josh’s commands and he eventually terminated the exercise because he had underestimated her strength and didn’t want her lingering there forever.  She then moved to the overhead press and though Josh pinned more weight than he had originally planned based on her leg press display, and while she did ultimately even reach failure, it was after a very long set.  From there she moved to the simple row and Josh had to make yet another adjustment to the weight selection after she began, but this time in the other direction.  While much stronger than the generic starting weight used for a typical first-time female client in the first two exercises, in this area she was noticeably weaker than average.  This speaks to how important that machine may be to service an often overlooked and incredibly important part of the back musculature.

It was now my turn to go through the initial leg press routine, with Al Coleman overseeing my workout.  Wanting to make sure I didn’t build too quickly, I ultimately built the force much too slowly, taking, I believe, upwards of 30 seconds to move the weight stack.  By the time I had started the actual movement I was already feeling significant fatigue.  The importance of gradualness, which the RenEx guys talk about all the time, suddenly had a new meaning no amount of verbiage could have conveyed.  As the exercise progressed, the feedback was both fascinating and disheartening as I could see myself unload, however slightly, on the bottom turnarounds, though it was immediately clear that such discrepancies could be fixed in time, now that I could see what I evidently wasn’t feeling.  While the weight was a bit light for me and I went well over four minutes, I did eventually reach failure when trying to come out of a bottom turn.  Interestingly, in hindsight, I can tell you that failure on the RenEx leg press felt much closer to the diminishing force capacity you see and feel on a static machine with feedback then it does on any other leg press I’ve tried, which always feels as much mechanical as muscular.

I then did a set on the Ventral Torso, which had been at my request.  I really like the SS Systems version and wanted to experience it with all the RenEx improvements.  It didn’t disappoint; along with the pulldown, it really does change forever what you think a true compound exercise can be.  After lunch we would be going through several static exercises so we cut the dynamic work there.

Throughout both of these mini-workouts I was impressed by the instruction, which was economical enough not to interfere with a subject’s concentration and mixed coaxing and criticism (always leavened with encouragement) with practical analogies and pinpointed direction.  I’m not sure where some get the impression that RenEx involves nothing but rote commands.

Right before lunch we met with Jeff to discuss business systems.  Spending an hour with Jeff, just based on energy level and intensity alone, you understand why Overload has been able to build the business they have.  I won’t go into the details of what we discussed because I don’t believe they intend to give this material away.  I will tell you it was incredibly useful information that we are already beginning to implement in our own business and that we will be seeking further consultation from Jeff in the months going forward.  If you are a facility owner and decide to visit, don’t pass up the chance to meet with Jeff.

After lunch I was put back on the leg press to do a static set with feedback.  Having already done a set of leg press to failure dynamically, it was brutal.  This was followed by pullover and pulldown on the iPOPD – the most pure pre-exhaust I have ever experienced.  But I should point out that with all three of these exercises there was the distinct sense that I had a lot to learn and was only scratching the surface of how to really engage each machine and get the most out of it.  What is exhilarating though, is knowing that you can chase these performance improvements, tracking your proficiency as the line you produce exhibits less and less polarity.  And I have no doubt that if you master a TSC exercise with feedback to guide you it will be transferable to a large degree to both blind TSC applications and dynamic exercise.  There has just never been a tool like this to improve the quality of your muscular contractions.

I finished with a TSC overhead press, which uses an LCD readout rather than a graphical interface.  I don’t know why, but I agree with Josh and Al that on this machine that interface feels right.  Perhaps because I’m somewhat used to what a SS Systems overhead press feels like, I felt I performed at least marginally better.  Having slowly graduated to and then sustaining what I think I remember being 60 pounds of force, I eventually began to fatigue and watched the numbers flicker downward.  By the time Al was counting down the final ten seconds my arms were shaking with fatigue as I struggled to maintain between 1.5 and 2 pounds of force.  While I long ago internalized the divergence of force and effort while inroading, it was still an extraordinary event to watch it happen numerically.  For those of us who instruct others – often struggling to get subjects to really understand the real objective of exercise – feedback like this could be the ultimate tool.  Rather than weeks of frustrating misunderstanding, a couple sessions with feedback may be like flipping a switch in their head.

The last actual strenuous work of the day was when Roxanne did a set of bicep exercise on the iPOPD.  She was blown away by the intense and direct nature of the stimulus, with none of the joint aggravation, grip issues or accidental shoulder involvement of so many arm curl set-ups.  She told me later that while pressing her wrists into the bottom pads she immediately thought of our older, frailer clients.  This would allow them to reach a level of intensity unheard of with all the rate-limiting factors found on other machines.  (My wife works in advertising, and the agency works on senior care community clients, so talk of exercise for the elderly is a big part of their business. While describing her experience on the iPOPD to a co-worker, keeping in mind she never knew the name of RenEx’s last conference, she said “you don’t understand, this is the f-ing future of exercise!”)

After that, Al took me through the features of the iMulti so I could get a feel for all of its various exercises without actually doing any real work. It is a pretty ingenious set-up that, on top of the TSC compound row, allows for a whole series of exercises for delicate structures and/or rehab work.

That sums up the highlights of our visit, but the day included a lot more than I have described, with Josh, Al and Jeff being extremely generous with their time and expertise.  Both Al and Josh gave me advice on how to get the most out of my current equipment and this led to a discussion of what single static machine would compliment my studio best.  We settled on the iPOPD, which is currently in production.  This was the machine I originally had my eye on and being able to try it really sealed the deal.  From the pelvic-tilt “get-set” to those last moments of muscular failure, the iPOPD just locks you into this feeling of pure muscular engagement. Once it arrives, I intend to switch all my clients over to it exclusively for the four exercises you can perform with it.  The goal will be to use it to teach proper behavior that will be transferable to other machines, but it will also represent the majority of upper-body work done by my clients (other than chest press) for an extended period.   I’m confident that with feedback, TSC will be all that is required for muscular development that could easily rival what average dynamic machines can offer.  And while this will be far from a controlled study, it will be fun to test that assumption and I’m considering documenting my client’s experience with TSC at thestrongworks.com, so check-in over there in a few months if you are interested.

When I decided to visit Overload to experience RenEx, I’ll admit I didn’t do it as a raging skeptic.  Having experienced the massive qualitative difference between generic gym equipment vs. say, Nautilus or Med-Ex or SS Systems machines, I could easily imagine that RenEx would be a hell of a lot better and be better at getting out of the user’s way.  But really experiencing the machines and protocol makes all the difference, even at the superficial, initial consult level – it is that qualitatively different.  Otherwise I wouldn’t be making what, for my operation, represents a considerable investment, with plans to invest further in the future.  Client education is the key to client retention, in my opinion, and RenEx is simply the best teaching tool I’ve encountered.

There are a million ways to productively exercise, but what I want to offer my clients (and perform myself) is the safest and most efficient form that can be scaled to anyone and done for a lifetime.  In that department, I’ve long assumed RenEx was the best choice.  Much like what Ken’s writing did for my understanding of the objective of exercise, finally experiencing RenEx machines and protocol took away the assumed and made it real.

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P.S. If you have not yet purchased your copy of The Future of Exercise now is your chance! Click Here to grab your copy today.

P.P.S. If you are interested in a private day of consulting and to experience first hand the RenEx Equipment feel free to contact us at info@ren-ex.com and put ‘On Site Audit‘ in the subject line. Days are limited and we only meet with serious exercise specialists. First come first serve!

{ 162 comments… read them below or add one }

avatar ad ligtvoet May 30, 2013 at 1:12 pm

Hi Owen,
Sounds(reads!!) like a great experience. Having the dvd’s myself I can truely understand why your wife urged you to make a visit.
I use the TSC myself and with a few clients and even without the readout graph I can say that it is a great teaching tool.Standard I let a new client apply the force (as by protocol of renex.) to the pads of a pullover in midrange position.Having explained everything they nevertheless show panic when fatigue sets in and behave as such.Nevertheless after a few time they get the aha moment.This safes a lot frustration when moving on to dynamic exercise.
I hope you gone write about the application in your gym ,to share experience.
Curious how the renex.team experienced the day with Owen.
ad
Ps. Eating oysters for breakfast…..man, my wife declares me nuts for less strange eating habits!!

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avatar Joshua Trentine May 30, 2013 at 1:28 pm

Owen,

Thank You for taking the time to do this! It was a very positive experience…

and Roxanne was a real champ on Leg Press, I wish I could train her 5 or 6 times to dial it in.

…a true “demo workout” just doesn’t exist.

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avatar John Parr May 30, 2013 at 3:40 pm

This is a fantastic post, and I know it accurately describes their visit to overload because it mirrors my experience at overload exactly.

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avatar Pete Collins May 30, 2013 at 6:09 pm

Awesome read, inspiring, i could feel my muscles contracting reading this with excitement.

True product advancement can be measured by the users experience. RenEx/Overload has taken into consideration & practices levels of customer service far superior to ‘gyms’ & ‘average personal trainers’ this article I sense reinforces the quality of the service delivered. Oysters for breakfast delivered by Josh, consider my order placed.

Congrats to Overload for ferocious commitment, attention to detail & passion for your craft.

Pete

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avatar Owen May 31, 2013 at 8:51 am

Thanks for all the kind words regarding the post. I hope people find it useful, even if just to satisfy curiosity.

Ad, I too use TSC blind with clients and find it really helpful – I think feedback is going make it invaluable. I still haven’t decided on the format I’ll use for reporting on all of this, but I think it would be interesting if, along with my own thoughts, I get first hand accounts from my clients about what they are getting out of using the iPOPD. I can tell you that all of my current clients are really excited about it based solely on what I have told them and not a session goes by where each and every one of them asks when the machine will arrive.

And to be clear about an all important point: Josh didn’t offer us any of his oysters and I know enough not to try to get between a bodybuilder and his food. By the same token, as much as I enjoy them with some hot sauce straight from the shell, at 7am and completely unadorned, I can’t say I was looking on with envy…

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avatar ad ligtvoet May 31, 2013 at 6:08 pm

Owen,
Would you mind to share your experience with the clients when they do the ipopd TSC?
You have a good looking training facility,shows the intend of being there.
ad

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avatar John Tatore June 1, 2013 at 12:36 pm

Owen

Having attended all 3 workshops and used all the machines … many of them … both static and dynamic …you did a great job of telling what it really feels like. Having also done statics without feedback and with feedback really lets you know how much force is really needed during the exercise. I was amazed when doing the static leg extension and static leg curl … how wiped my legs were when I got off the machine …maybe your next purchase.

John

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avatar Craig June 1, 2013 at 9:21 pm

Interesting story – I rarely think about this stuff from the perspective of the business owner.

For Owen,

I saw your post on BBS from a few weeks (months?) ago, and looked up your web site. The web site is very well done, and (based on the photos) the facility looks pretty neat.

Not being an equipment guy, I can’t tell what kind of machines you currently have, other than seeing some Nautilus labels, and recognizing some obvious things like leg press, chest press, etc. Wonder if you’d be willing to talk a little about that part of your business (either here or on BBS). Also curious as to what brought you to this kind of training, how long have you been in the business, etc.

Finally, the money question: what kind of rates do you charge?

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avatar Pete Collins June 1, 2013 at 9:54 pm

Owen

As with Travis’s experience, personal experience feedback trumps negative talk every time.

Well done

Pete

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avatar Joshua Trentine June 5, 2013 at 12:49 am

!

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avatar Steven Turner June 2, 2013 at 12:23 am

Hi all,

Great to see some positive feedback from satisfied customers like Owen experiencing first hand RenEx service. I wished that some of the “anti” would experience RenEX first hand before they make negative comments.

I think that RenEx has taken exercise to a new and exciting level…”client education is the key to retention”…how true a statement.

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avatar Joshua Trentine June 5, 2013 at 12:48 am

Steven,

If they all could just come spend a day…

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avatar Owen June 3, 2013 at 11:26 am

Ad
I definitely will. Just waiting for the machine to be built and shipped. So put pressure on Josh to get it to me so I can get started : )

Craig
I have mostly Nautilus Nitro equipment (pulldown, leg press, leg extension, bi and tri and a pec fly) along with a Nautilus 2ST chest press and Med-Ex compound row with fused movement arms. I intend to ultimately replace it all with RenEx equipment. I got into the business having been an avid trainee for years. Used to live in LA where there are a lot of studios. Moved back to central CT where there are none. That is a super-condensed version – I can give you more details in an email if you like, including my rates. Send an email to thestrongworks@me.com and I’ll reply. Are you in the general area?

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avatar Craig June 29, 2013 at 10:40 am

Owen,

I live about 5 miles from your place. I was pretty excited to see a SS style facility open up in the area, since the next closest one is John Tatore’s facility down near Stamford. Unfortunately, shortly after I saw your BBS post, circumstances forced me to take a close look at the family budget, and it wasn’t pretty. I’m now in a serious cost cutting mode, so my inquiry about your rates was more about curiosity and for future reference.

You should do well in West Hartford, because there are people with decent levels of disposable income, and no one else offers that kind of training.

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avatar Owen July 1, 2013 at 8:32 am

Craig,

I should hopefully have the iPOPD sometime within the month of July. Feel free to call me (number is on the website) – we can set up a time for you to come by and see the facility informally. The majority of my clients were unaware of anything like this protocol before starting with me. Considering that you post here and at BBS you clearly have a deeper interest, so even if it isn’t the right time for you to consider training with someone it would be nice to chat with someone like-minded.

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avatar db144 June 4, 2013 at 7:30 am

Worst infomercial ever.

d

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avatar Joshua Trentine June 5, 2013 at 12:47 am

Insecure people will always criticize others especially if your choices differ from theirs…That’s because they’re uncomfortable with things that don’t conform to their way of thinking…Secure people can handle being the only one doing something…They can allow others the liberty to be different and to make their own choices.

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avatar Chris June 5, 2013 at 8:39 am

db144, – how can you be so sure ?, and whats your issue with RenX.

Be assured i am not taking sides or indeed on your case, wuth this question.

I feel RenX are genuinely exploring successfully, in regards to long term sustainable training, -but that does not mean i am adverse or blind to others opinions or views.

So if you would, what are yours.

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avatar db144 June 5, 2013 at 6:09 am

LOL, oh yes, that’s it Josh. Your keen insight has led you to the promised land once more!
Keep trying little train….

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avatar db144 June 5, 2013 at 7:42 am

Hutchins has taught you well…

Brilliant men, LOL.

d

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avatar Chris June 6, 2013 at 7:19 am

db144, are you kindly going to elaborate ?

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avatar Joshua Trentine June 9, 2013 at 2:57 pm

Chris,

It’s like the rest…they are mad, but when you ask them they can’t tell you why. …emotional lil guys.

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avatar Bradley warlow June 5, 2013 at 8:20 am

I was surprised that Josh had to lower the weight significantly for Roxanne on the simple row, despite being stronger than expected on the compound movements. This really hit home for me; how important isolation exercises really are. Perhaps Arthur Jones hypothesis of the knock on effect of one muscle to another as espoused by Arthur Jones is not necessarily true after all.

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avatar John K June 5, 2013 at 9:04 am

This db144 really needs help.

I can’t for the life of me imagine spending 1,000th of a nano second on something I cleary dislike so much. It is absolutely pathetic.

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avatar Joshua Trentine June 26, 2013 at 2:34 pm

thats just it….no one would….well no one in their right mind….

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avatar db144 June 5, 2013 at 6:17 pm

Thanks John K and Chris. I’ll keep up the good work.

d

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avatar db144 June 6, 2013 at 1:25 pm

LOL, look at all the sheeple in line listening to the Masters of RenEx.

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avatar db144 June 7, 2013 at 1:27 pm

What is really pathetic is 30 years of training failure and still people follow.

d

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avatar Joshua Trentine June 9, 2013 at 2:58 pm

Dave,

It’s far more pathetic that you hit this site daily, even when we’re not posting.

You might be the biggest groupie.

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avatar Joshua Trentine June 26, 2013 at 2:35 pm

can you say “sustainability” ?

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avatar Joshua Trentine June 9, 2013 at 3:00 pm

private site….its lookin like july 1….long over due

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avatar Ed M. June 11, 2013 at 6:12 pm

Joshua,

No, no, don’t tell me you are going to purge the site of pathetic losers?

What will I do for amusement? Crossfit?

Ed

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avatar Joshua Trentine June 14, 2013 at 2:13 am

Ed,

I think a pay site is best….we’ve given away so much for free and for what? The things we’ve put out are ridiculed by some and copied and completely butchered by others. Furthermore neither of the groups of people are willing to invest in the training they just want to take…I say lets weed them out.

Joshua

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avatar Donnie Hunt June 30, 2013 at 6:14 pm

Indeed you guys have given a lot of free information. I don’t thinks it gonna happen anytime soon lol, but I would like to pay a visit to one the RenEx facilities someday and have one of you put me through a workout if you guys let someone pay for a one time session? Keep innovating, keep doing what you all do.

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avatar db144 June 10, 2013 at 9:06 am

Where to begin? Instead of listening to you and falling in line with the RenEx talking points, the people that frequent this site should talk to the first certified SS trainers, those certified by your Master, and discuss their long term observations of this method (regardless of what you say, RenEx is SS on a new line of machines).

As AJ did with Nautilus, recruiting active bodybuilders (or inactive like yourself) to stump for RenEx doesn’t mean they’ve built their (your) muscle using this recycled SS method. The idea that training to reach one’s genetic muscular max. and rehabilitating from injury are the same has proved a failure of your Master for more than 30 years. The long term excuse of too much friction and/or the wrong cams for the strength curve is ridiculous.

It rests on you to prove your case that RenEx is the best method of weight training as you’ve repeatedly stated. Posting text book passages and pretending to be a teacher proves nothing. You have repeatedly balked at providing evidence to the public. Why is that?

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avatar mark June 13, 2013 at 2:32 pm

No one said this was pure science. Obviously, claims that a particular exercise method is the “best” should be read: “We believe it’s the best.”, the reader may then take that as an invitation to try it for themselves. You’re questioning RenEx’s sincerity? If so, there’s truly no point in your continuing here, as nothing can be resolved. I know that you’ve been on forums that included Tim Ryan. If I recall correctly, he’s -the- original Hutchins-trained SuperSlow Master Trainer. Mr Ryan , for all of his disagreements with Ken, SuperSlow , (most of which were business-related), and RenEx, is, nonetheless, still a de facto SuperSlow trainer and practitioner, thus their disagreements are a tiny fraction of their essential agreement.

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avatar db144 June 11, 2013 at 6:06 am

As I said, can’t deal with contrary points of view supported by more than 3 decades of proof.

d

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avatar Joshua Trentine June 26, 2013 at 2:36 pm

things that don’t work don’t last 3 decades….

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avatar db144 June 11, 2013 at 7:44 am

I will keep posting.

Please give me an example of someone that has reached their genetic max. using RenEx. So far I’ve seen a bunch of skinny people and those that are in need of rehab.

d

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avatar Joshua Trentine June 13, 2013 at 12:47 am
avatar Joshua Trentine June 14, 2013 at 2:02 am

lol….hmmmm

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avatar Tom Moreland June 11, 2013 at 8:19 pm

Great review guys!

Too, too bad about all those Shattered Egos out there; who just can’t conceive of the possibility that progress has simply passed them by. It’s thier lose.

“Why we’ve always done it that way” seems to be their mantra.

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avatar Joshua Trentine June 26, 2013 at 2:36 pm

thanks Tom!

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avatar db144 June 12, 2013 at 3:24 pm

Ah, don’t be like that Josh.

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avatar db144 June 13, 2013 at 5:54 am

Talking a good game and producing results is different.

Damn that friction once again…

Tom M.: Yes let us toss away what is known to work for what has failed. Talking about an advancement is easy but having it materialize has eluded Josh’s Master for many, many years and it continues….

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avatar db144 June 13, 2013 at 6:45 am

How did the “Master” and Josh solve the SS failure?

Build a new line of machines…and presto! A new group of sheep to shear…

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avatar db144 June 13, 2013 at 8:34 am

LOL, not a single person you posted in that link is as built as me.

d

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avatar mark June 14, 2013 at 3:14 pm

1/Your request was for examples of RenEx’s assistance in achieving anyone’s genetic potential, not “who’s built better than me”. They’re not built “better” than Ron Coleman, either. Are you? Do -none- of the variables influencing potential muscle mass mean -anything- to you? If not, you must be ashamed to have never become Mr Olympia, since it’s obviously poor training methods & unwillingness to do hard work that’s held you back:-) 2/You’re not the known person you seem to think you are; you making physique-related claims on this forum is just like every youtube 12 year-old posting their supposed lifts & dimensions. If you have an online presence outlining your philosophy & methods, & showing objective proof of your results, post the link.

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avatar chris June 19, 2013 at 1:18 pm

db144, – honest question. Tell me about the failures of SS.

For the record whilst i do believe in a slower cadence of training, SS i feel is ittle too slow with basic equipment, – barbells, dumbells etc.

RenX for more are trying to promote a sustainable way to train, – think lifetime.

Ok in the short or even medium term, other methods may be as good or better, but long-term ?

i have no axe to grind, nor commercial interest here, only the truth matters to me.

So please as before, please elaborate

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avatar Joshua Trentine June 25, 2013 at 2:30 pm

yes…elaborate….

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avatar Lizabeth August 21, 2016 at 1:04 pm

Pin my tail and call me a doenky, that really helped.

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avatar Rob K June 14, 2013 at 2:16 pm

db

agreed … lean is not what I expected.
160 pounds to 140 is not what we desire.
… and this its what we see as RX results.

btw … this also goes for other sites too.

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avatar Joshua Trentine June 24, 2013 at 12:53 am

?

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avatar db144 June 17, 2013 at 7:59 am

Truth be told I am in better shape than most of your paying clients, the infirm excluded.

The fact is RenEx is a failure for maximizing muscle growth and no matter how you talk it up it will always be a rehab method using rehab specific machines.

d
P.S. Josh can’t wait to see your “new” RenEx built body in competition. Last time you said you were unable to compete because all the top bodybuilders are on steroids. What will be your excuse for mediocrity this time?

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avatar Joshua Trentine June 24, 2013 at 12:50 am

of course you are

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avatar db144 June 17, 2013 at 8:10 am

Josh, don’t you wish you’d never visited Dr.D’s forum?

Oh, well. Next time keep the BS sales pitch and lies on your own website.

d

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avatar Joshua Trentine June 24, 2013 at 12:50 am

nope

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avatar Dan Graves June 17, 2013 at 8:49 pm

Nice work Tom, JoeA, etc …

your ignorance of any relevenace of BBS has sumoed Doug’s site.
We’ve lost a once great collaboration of John and Doug to the accolights (sic).

DG

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avatar Joshua Trentine June 24, 2013 at 12:49 am

i’m still trying to figure out what this means

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avatar db144 June 18, 2013 at 5:51 am

The strongest bodybuilder in the world is afraid of a few sentences posted on a tiny, insignificant website.

d

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avatar Joshua Trentine June 22, 2013 at 8:30 pm

lol….counting they days til a private site…..

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avatar Doug McGuff, MD June 23, 2013 at 11:49 am

Dan,

BBS is not sumoed. John changed his email address and we did not get the renewal notices for the domain. We are back online now.

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avatar db144 June 24, 2013 at 12:45 pm

Interesting how the RenEx sycophants want proof of failure but the only proof of success they offer in return is the marketing BS spewed by Josh. This entire house of cards rests on believing whatever Josh states as fact and little else.

RenEx is less than 2 years old and yet bold statements of life long sustainability are being presented as fact. Convoluted theories and conclusions based on hearsay are not proof. Learn the difference.

P.S. Perhaps when Josh grows up like me there will be proof.

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avatar db144 June 24, 2013 at 6:57 pm

Josh isn’t clever he’s immature like RenEx in the real world.

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avatar db144 June 25, 2013 at 8:13 am

If you want to see threats to others visit Dr.Darden’s forum, the one Josh was banned from, and look at any of his this thread. An intellectual giant threatening to attack others on sight. What a man…it must be the aggressive and typical tribal tattoos of the modern tough guy. Obviously Josh has issues.

I guess when you do not spend a few weeks rewriting each article the true nature of a given writer becomes readily apparent.

Hurry, hurry, hurry, get that pay site up and running.

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avatar Joshua Trentine June 26, 2013 at 2:32 pm

That forum is dead, they should let me back on there….

i”ll take pride in being the ONLY one ever kicked off the forum even amidst the most vile behavior people can have….

someone felt threatened…..

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avatar Chris June 25, 2013 at 8:32 am

Wow Db144, now this is getting interesting.

So why would not ss/Ren x be sustainable ?

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avatar db144 June 26, 2013 at 8:22 am

Chris,
These sort of grand statements look good on paper but spend a minute to think it over. This is the type of nonsense that passes as advancement on this website. A retiree going through the motions must be the standard for Josh’s sustainability.

Ask Josh to post a few more example of bodybuilders that didn’t build their muscles with RenEx.

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avatar Joshua Trentine June 26, 2013 at 2:29 pm

Which statements?

of course this can’t be answered….

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avatar db144 June 26, 2013 at 9:18 am

Sorry Chris, RenEx is a bunch of monkeys.

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avatar Joshua Trentine June 26, 2013 at 2:29 pm

some would say we all are

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avatar db144 June 26, 2013 at 12:45 pm

You won’t stop me from posting!

d

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avatar Joshua Trentine June 26, 2013 at 2:28 pm

oh ya?

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avatar Rob K June 26, 2013 at 1:45 pm

db144
Dan and you are correct.
How come JTs examples look like triathletes?
No girth no size just definition due to starvation.

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avatar Joshua Trentine June 26, 2013 at 1:52 pm

Rob,

It’s natural bodybuilding….if you want to compare to other methods everyone i’ve prepped has placed top three, many winners and 3 pro cards….you may not like the look but its the nature of the sport.

i’ve got up to 228# with very little visible fat , but that will get me last place in every natural show.

Joshua

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avatar Joshua Trentine June 26, 2013 at 2:28 pm

I think the object of the comment sections has been lost….does anyone comprehend that the purpose of the “comments” is to discuss the presented article?

July can’t come soon enough.

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avatar Tom Moreland June 26, 2013 at 2:44 pm

Can’t happen soon enough! It’s incredible how threatend these clowns are.

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avatar Joshua Trentine June 26, 2013 at 2:47 pm

i’ve never seen anything like it…..its so bizarre…

….and never ends

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avatar Jayden August 21, 2016 at 1:21 pm

Wow! Great thnnkiig! JK

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avatar db144 June 26, 2013 at 3:18 pm

Forever the BS braggart aren’t we Josh? The ones with a handful of contestants per division?

d

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avatar Joshua Trentine June 26, 2013 at 3:27 pm

Show me proof…show me proof!

Wow Josh you are a braggart!
===========================
Too funny…

i’ve repped at the Mr.USA, The world’s in Europe representing team USA, and the Pro Mr.Universe…i’ve seen more than a “handful” of contestants.

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avatar Joshua Trentine June 26, 2013 at 3:28 pm

tick, tock, tick, tock…..days are counting

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avatar Matt Spriggs June 26, 2013 at 3:37 pm

I have not had my initial consult yet – due to the flu, but I’m rescheduling. What I can say is that Josh and Al have been very professional in their dealings with me. It’s funny to see people accusing them of being avaricious. True, I wish many things were free, but seldom is something of value free, cheap or easy. Following the recommendations of Ken’s protocol – I am getting bigger and stronger. This isn’t particularly easy to say, since I was a vocal opponent of RenEx. How ignorant to ridicule something and claim it doesn’t work without a proper understanding of the philosophy, protocol and it’s various benefits.
Thank you Ken, Josh and the RenEx team for helping me find a new path and an efficacious training approach. I will probably be accused of being brainwashed or a paid spokesman – neither of which are true. I do have nearly 20 years of nautilus training principles I’ve followed as an exercise professional which have worked very well. RenEx is a refinement and an advancement.

Matt

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avatar Joshua Trentine June 26, 2013 at 3:41 pm

Matt,

Get ready to come under fire.lol

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avatar Joshua Trentine June 26, 2013 at 3:42 pm

Matt,

Thank you!

and thanks for taking the time to write this, I really appreciate it.

Joshua

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avatar John K June 26, 2013 at 4:14 pm

I still cannot believe the amount of time that this db144 spends posting here! I don’t waste one precious second of my life doing anything that has anything to do with something I clearly disagree with, much less hate as much as he hates you guys. It is truly amazing that there are such sad people out there.

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avatar Joshua Trentine June 26, 2013 at 4:58 pm

John K,

He is out biggest fan 3,4,5,6…sometimes 10 hits a day from him.

he is a good groupie….

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avatar Patrick June 26, 2013 at 6:56 pm

Off topic like most of this thread, but I cannot believe what is passing for HIT these days..though I had seen it all but found this gem..yet Renex is the devil? This has to be a parody, right?

http://youtu.be/F76u1AX6pkk

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avatar Joshua Trentine June 26, 2013 at 7:07 pm

that appears to be the opposite of what we’re tryin to do

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avatar db144 June 27, 2013 at 6:09 am

I spend a few minutes a day giving Josh the sort of shit we at Dr.D’s forum had to bear for more than a year as Josh the genius tried explaining the RenEx principles but would spend hours a day trying to impress all. Videos of the “World’s Strongest Bodybuilder” lifting in a safe manner….LOL.

Nothing funnier than “professional trainers” that are incapable of training themselves and must rely on moving “heavy air” under the supervision of the narcissistic. The only air consistently moving through RenEx is Josh’s hot air.

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avatar db144 June 27, 2013 at 7:51 am

ROFL. Josh trying to pretend he didn’t spend 8 or 10 hours a day on Dr.D’s forum trying to convince the world of his magical breakthrough called RenEx and failing miserably to the point of threats of physical violence.

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avatar db144 June 27, 2013 at 9:32 am

I’m sure the RenEx bodybuilders being judged by Josh do well at any contest he officiates…

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avatar Joshua Trentine June 27, 2013 at 1:34 pm

i have never judged a competitor from my facility

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avatar db144 June 27, 2013 at 9:34 am

Matt stop with the RenEx talking points.

Josh and Ken trail blazing on borrowed training methods from better men than themselves.

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avatar Matt Spriggs June 27, 2013 at 12:13 pm

db144,

Clearly, this is a waste, but I’ll do it – to satisfy a macabre curiosity I suppose…let the train wreck begin. I posted no RenEx talking posts – just my own.
I was a very vocal critic of Ken, Josh and RenEx. I have decided to leave my ego aside. If there is a better way, I acknowledge it and embrace it and abandon lesser approaches – even if it costs me money and pride. To my knowledge, neither Ken or Josh claim to have invented many of these things. They have simply developed a system and have made it available – whether it be the application of TSC or 10/10. I don’t recall them begging me or even asking me to purchase their manual, to post on their site or to have any affiliation with RenEx.

Matt

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avatar db144 June 27, 2013 at 1:19 pm

Matt,
Wishing something is going to work and having it work are different. Ken has been trying to find a way for SS to build long term muscle for 30 years and has repeatedly failed. Ask Ken why for more than 30 years he has failed to produce a single study on the effectiveness of SS building muscle. Oh, and RenEx is mostly definitely SS part 2.
How long will it take you to decide it doesn’t work for you? I hope not long.

Josh continually points to himself and a handful of active bodybuilders that did not build their muscles with RenEx as RenEx success stories. That is a complete fabrication of facts and BS marketing.

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avatar Matt Spriggs June 27, 2013 at 2:05 pm

db144,

True – I don’t see 270lbs monsters that are shredded from SS/RenEx. Nor do I see very many from Nautilus/HVT/CrossFit and nearly any other method under the sun, but there are MANY failures. So lets compare apples to apples – shall we? Freaks are freaks and injecting insulin, steroids and other substances into these freaks produces even freakier physiques. Many if not all of the top bodybuilders train in a manner that’s counter to RenEx…So do almost all of the failures!!! Just look at a local gym with people throwing the weight and arguing against standardization – I’m sorry, but we’ve tried that approach and if RenEx is a failure, the “haphazard approach” that you seem to be in favor of is more along the lines of a tragedy. I prefer a system that provides measurable and sustainable progress – RenEx.
Surely bodybuilding competition isn’t the only measure of a systems validity and relevance – if so it’s a terrible waste. I’m excited to see the opportunities for sustainable, long-term improvement, fat loss, rehabilitation, management of diseases like arthritis, diabetes and MS along with…..muscular hypertrophy that RenEx can and does produce.

Matt

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avatar Joshua Trentine June 28, 2013 at 2:35 am

since db is so into my judging, i will score this as a 10 to 7 round in favor of Matt.

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avatar Patrick June 27, 2013 at 7:11 pm

Hope to see a future article on the origins of Renex. A very cryptic old guard HIT trainer is implying..something, dunno.

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avatar Joshua Trentine June 27, 2013 at 7:38 pm

origins of RenEx?

it’s an open book….what ya wanna know?

maybe i’ll have to sit down and tell the story if anyone is interested.

The short version is:

This training is the most amazing discovery in the history of exercise, there were some gaps still, some we knew and some we became aware of. I decided to get the best in the world together and take it to the next level.

🙂

Joshua

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avatar db144 June 28, 2013 at 1:19 pm

Here we go…

The greatest discovery ever blah, blah, blah. Take it to the next level blah, blah, blah.

This is the same nonsense Josh tried to push on Dr.D’s forum until he couldn’t take the criticism any longer and snapped.

The little train keeps pulling but the load is getting heavier and heavier…

Just a few more days before the pay site arrives. Are all the sheeple signed up for more unsubstantiated BS?

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avatar Rob K June 28, 2013 at 2:12 pm

db
right you are. that’s why it its really Back to the Future…
IMHO the only real develop the last 20 or so years is Littles work… lifting [or holding] much more weight, resting much more, and moving much less

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avatar Joshua Trentine June 28, 2013 at 2:22 pm

if that were true, why come here? why waste your time?

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avatar Hollie August 21, 2016 at 1:11 pm

It’s great to read something that’s both enjoyable and provides pragdatismc solutions.

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avatar Rob K June 29, 2013 at 11:48 am

We come to learn and share how some have literally wasted years, cash, effort on a flawed protocol.
The breadth of knowledge its evident if we search for it … but too many will ride this SS RX prescription to futility,
ignorance, our in your case blind low capacity followers. In 2013 you are doing harm

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avatar Joshua Trentine June 29, 2013 at 11:54 am

scared huh?

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avatar Joshua Trentine June 29, 2013 at 12:01 pm

“Man is regarded as a sentient being—If you are rational your ideas is based on facts and logical thinking. If you are irrational your opinions is based on emotion, fear, anger, etc and not on facts or logical thinking—Rationality will make you a man, not just another animal. if you have the signal ability of resolving conclusions and of using conclusions resolved to resolve further conclusions.”-MM-

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avatar ad ligtvoet June 29, 2013 at 12:33 pm

@Joshua,
Yep,MM wrote a lot about logic and it was that whet atracted me to learn more about it and to rethink my thoughts about exercise. I miss his ‘welcomepage’with always the integration of philosophical principles and the world of exercise.
Looking forward to thuesday for the Q&A.Most wake up very early and although some posters here think I must me nuts to do so,Ido so without complains!!
ad

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avatar Rob K June 29, 2013 at 12:08 pm

of course, but this science is way beyond most.
For a few of us we see and understand the severe flaws in SSRX. That said it was ccutting edge in 1990

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avatar Joshua Trentine June 29, 2013 at 12:15 pm

What is the chance that you’ll list these “flaws” and explain why they are so?

1990? Nothing lasts that long without a strong basis.

None of this makes sense…vague arguments and constant visits and posts on what is currently a dormant site.

“If you are irrational your opinions is based on emotion, fear, anger, etc”

this is no way to live.

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avatar db144 June 30, 2013 at 4:40 pm

Will this be my last post?

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avatar Mike June 30, 2013 at 9:21 pm

To db144,
I see that you are very opposed to the s/s protocol.My question to you is what do you believe is the best way to train a muscle?Do you believe in fast reps,high frequent workouts and multiple sets?Just curious,thanks.

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avatar Joshua Trentine June 30, 2013 at 9:32 pm

Mike,

This is the question I always have….so RenEx is completely wrong….ok, what is the alternative? and why?

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avatar db144 July 1, 2013 at 6:04 am

Josh arrives on the scene with SS2, Hutchins’ blessing, and all the answers as long as you’re willing to pay….

How many times must I post this for you Josh?

Josh I wonder how many of your clients have seen surprise on the face of friends and co workers when they say they weight train because after months of training no appreciable muscle gain is noticeable?

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avatar Joshua Trentine July 1, 2013 at 3:08 pm

I have no problem charging for information that the RenEx team has compiled.

The HIT community seems to have a sense of entitlement.

imo the free sites are completely stagnant.

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avatar db144 July 1, 2013 at 6:06 am

By the way I see like RenEx, your statements about July 1st are premature…

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avatar Matt Spriggs July 1, 2013 at 9:36 am

Interesting how Mentzer continues to inspire. In 1996, Mike told me “Matt, I’m not interested in who is right and who is wrong…I’m simply interested in the truth.” My workouts are looking more and more like Mentzer’s consolidated:

A) Squats and Chins
B) Deadlift and Push Up

Performed 10/10 – RenEx style. This is the most challenging/rewarding routine I’ve ever performed. Thanks Mike and RenEx!

Matt

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avatar Joshua Trentine July 1, 2013 at 3:09 pm

Matt,

Under ideal conditions this is the direction things should be going

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avatar Constance August 21, 2016 at 1:21 pm

You are so awesome for helping me solve this myretsy.

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avatar db144 July 1, 2013 at 7:43 pm

Matt,
Stop being a suck up and a sheep. Think.

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avatar Matt Spriggs July 1, 2013 at 8:26 pm

db144,

I cannot speak for Josh, but I doubt that he views me as a suck up or sheep. We had spirited debates, “rattled sabers” and I recognized I was incorrect and decided to learn rather than detract. You happen to make his points more salient each time you post – no solutions, but plenty of nonsensical detritus. It would be great to see solidarity among the HIT community, but you seem to be so despondent that you focus on nothing other than criticizing Josh and anyone that listens to him. If this is what you look forward to….you are a tragic case indeed.
Since I’m a sheep, I presume you are the shepherd. Please enlighten me on a better, more result-producing approach.

Matt

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avatar Joshua Trentine July 1, 2013 at 9:56 pm

Matt,

He seems preoccupied.

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avatar db144 July 1, 2013 at 8:52 pm

The ass wipe Josh

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avatar db144 July 1, 2013 at 8:58 pm

Apparently not there wasn’t enough money to be made with a forum for paying members…

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avatar db144 July 1, 2013 at 9:37 pm

Afraid of my nonsensical posts?

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avatar Joshua Trentine July 1, 2013 at 9:44 pm

funny watching this tantrum before the RenEx Inner Circle goes live

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avatar db144 July 1, 2013 at 9:46 pm

Shall I post some of your comments from Dr.D’s website Josh?

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avatar db144 July 1, 2013 at 9:50 pm

Shall I post the argument with the gentleman, the same gentleman you had build you a pulley to replace the standard cheap plastic pulley on a RenEx machine, when he first pointed out the flaw?

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avatar Joshua Trentine July 1, 2013 at 9:53 pm

please do….hurry though, the clock is ticking!

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avatar Joshua Trentine July 1, 2013 at 9:54 pm

Nuclear meltdown

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avatar db144 July 1, 2013 at 9:57 pm

Is anyone listening to me?

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avatar db144 July 1, 2013 at 10:00 pm

Inner Circle sort like the Original SS Masters. ROFL laughing. Do you guys wear capes when meeting?

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avatar Joshua Trentine July 1, 2013 at 10:04 pm

I only take mine off to shower

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avatar Matt Spriggs July 1, 2013 at 10:01 pm

Josh,

Does anyone need to question why you would want a members only site? I mean seriously. And you are the one being accused of issues? Maybe I’m the delusional one, but I’m looking forward to the private site and more great information. The info you and your team has been extremely valuable and literally life-changing. Thanks

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avatar Joshua Trentine July 1, 2013 at 10:06 pm

Matt,

It gets worse if you saw the private emails….

apparently RenEx is polarizing.

and you are very welcome…..you’d think those who see something different would change the channel, but you have to ask yourself….”why are they so emotional? why so attached?

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avatar chris July 2, 2013 at 11:07 am

Sorry to all, but yes i am questioning why a private site.

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avatar db144 July 1, 2013 at 10:01 pm

Josh are you saying you haven’t threatened Fred Hahn?

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avatar Joshua Trentine July 1, 2013 at 10:04 pm

who me?

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avatar Jeffrey Muehl July 1, 2013 at 10:04 pm

db144,

What argument is that? The standard plastic pulleys used by all exercise manufacturing companies suck. Joshua took what I said seriously and purchased some pulleys from me. I don’t think Joshua would say plastic pulleys are perfect.

Right now I am working on another project with RenEx called Project X. I am trying to not think about the mechanics of machines for now — moving onto a far more important idea for improving the training experience.

Some day I hope to build the ideal machines but I am short the 20-30 million dollars I need.

jeff

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avatar Joshua Trentine July 1, 2013 at 10:09 pm

Moving on the awesome

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avatar db144 July 1, 2013 at 10:06 pm

No I’m sure it was someone else using your nick on the forum.

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avatar Joshua Trentine July 1, 2013 at 10:08 pm

naw that was me…

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avatar Joshua Trentine July 1, 2013 at 10:09 pm

PROJECT X 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂

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avatar db144 July 1, 2013 at 10:09 pm

Good luck Josh after associating with SS you’ll need it.

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avatar Joshua Trentine July 1, 2013 at 10:35 pm

thanks

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avatar Jeffrey Muehl July 1, 2013 at 10:10 pm

db144,

Be careful — the people who argue against RenEx the hardest wind up becoming the most devote followers. I pray to Cleveland four times a day now.

jeff

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avatar Joshua Trentine July 1, 2013 at 10:12 pm

LOL

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avatar Jeffrey Muehl July 1, 2013 at 10:12 pm

db144,

Will you be joining the pay site ?

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avatar Joshua Trentine July 1, 2013 at 10:17 pm

Jeffery,

He has to…he is hands down the most frequent visitor of this page.

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avatar Jeffrey Muehl July 1, 2013 at 10:18 pm

I think in time db144 will become a huge RenEx fan. Just a matter of weeks before his conversion…….. How far up in the RenEx order can he rise? Will you let him get above water boy status?

jeff

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avatar Joshua Trentine July 1, 2013 at 10:21 pm

Jeffery,

Waterboy is very important down in Florida, it’s hot there.

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avatar Betty August 21, 2016 at 12:58 pm

Your potisng lays bare the truth

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avatar Jeffrey Muehl July 1, 2013 at 10:25 pm

I can only image the hazing that db144 will have through after the rituals you made me do…. It is worth it db144.

jeff

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avatar Joshua Trentine July 1, 2013 at 10:27 pm

oh no jeffery…far too cruel to watch again…i’m still having nightmares

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avatar Jeffrey Muehl July 1, 2013 at 10:29 pm

Why does db144 get a free pass?

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avatar Joshua Trentine July 1, 2013 at 10:32 pm

commitment..he has a lot of time invested in RenEx

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avatar db144 July 2, 2013 at 6:44 am

RenEx is a house of cards built on the failure of SS. You’ve built another generation of machines, with the help of the master baiter, to overcome the shortfalls of the SS machines. Of course the same marketing campaign was applied, strength curves discussed, supposed average guy to bodybuilding competition ready pictures trotted out, and finally the attempted indoctrination of those interested contrary to established proven methods of weight training. Of course as you continually point out you don’t know of any other way to make quick, easy money (insert a P.T. Barnum quote here).

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avatar Bradley warlow July 2, 2013 at 6:57 am

Josh- what did you mean that 228lbs with very little visible fat would get you last place in every natural show?

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avatar Joshua Trentine July 2, 2013 at 10:25 am

id have to come in closer to 200#, they want you shredded

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avatar Dell August 21, 2016 at 12:35 pm

Congratulations, Kee;2th!I&#8n17nm quite pleased to hear you’ll have a shop. Welcome to the dark side of power tools. It’s fun in here. By the way, should you have any questions or issues on shop setup, please let me know. I’m happy to help.

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avatar Joshua Trentine July 2, 2013 at 5:44 pm

counting down to the RenEx Inner Circle

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avatar Joshua Trentine July 2, 2013 at 10:39 pm

As of 8pm July 2nd the RenEx Inner Circle is live.

The comments here are officially closed…I will continue to provide some, but few public articles.

Joshua

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