In my last blog post, Are You A Personal Trainer Or A Life Changer?, I discussed how to survive and thrive in this business as an instructor.
Today, I’d like to discuss what it takes to survive and thrive as a business.
Sorry if this isn’t as exciting as discussing the realm of lower turnaround, TUL or breathing BUT I know there are a lot of us in this niche who own businesses and this is our livelihood.
So for those of you who do not own a business then I apologize, Josh will be back next post with some exciting new content for you.
For the rest of you, I think you will find this of great value and if you don’t by all means let me know 🙂
I’ve heard many HIT business owners say that this is a terrible business model.
I beg to differ.
Out of all of the other fitness training business models I believe ours to be one of the most efficient, effective and lucrative available.
Don’t get me wrong our commitment to our training philosophy does have its limitations.
- We can’t train multiple people at once.
- We can’t buy cheap equipment or use no equipment at all.
- We can’t perform our service at a park or beach.
These may be perceived as limitations but I consider them the foundation of what makes our business model work so well.
You see, in any business you have to separate yourself from the competition if you want to survive and grow. This is known as a UNIQUE SELLING PROPOSTION (USP) a term that was coined by the great advertising executive Rosser Reeves.
People often confuse a slogan for a USP. A slogan can be congruent with your USP such as the one that Rosser Reeves created for M&Ms; “The milk chocolate melts in your mouth, not in your hand.”
BUT, a slogan is NOT a USP.
A USP is what sets you apart from your competition.
However your slogan should be very relevant to your USP.
Take our OVERLOAD Fitness facility’s slogan: Maximum Fitness…Minimum Time.
It is relevant to our USP but it doesn’t tell the whole story. Damn close though.
Those who follow this model automatically have a UNIQUE SELLING PROPOSTION.
Think about it:
- We keep our facility clinically controlled with regard to temperature so you won’t sweat.
- Our facility is devoid of any distractions (no music, mirrors or socializing).
- We dress professionally.
- We MUST use a specific type of equipment in order to perform the protocol which NO ONE else uses.
- We actually have a system (a PROTOCOL) that is consistent and reproducible from instructor to instructor that no one else uses.
- We require very little of your time; 20 minutes 1-2 times per week and we get RESULTS!
- And typically most things we tell our clients are the exact OPPOSITE than what other personal trainers and popular magazines and TV infomercials are preaching.
I’m sure there are others but these are our main unique selling propositions.
Almost everything we do and say is 180 degrees in the opposite direction than other fitness businesses and this is what makes our business model such a success.
Therefore, if you follow this model in your business you have a built in USP that helps you surpass the competition.
So those out there claiming that this is a terrible business model are not performing the #1 job of any business owner.
What is that you may ask?
Bear with me and I’ll tell you in a moment.
Two of our OVERLOAD facilities are in Cleveland, Ohio.
Let me say that again: CLEVELAND, OHIO.
According to the U.S. Census Bureau Cleveland, Ohio was the 2nd poorest city in the US only behind Detroit, Michigan.
Now if we can build a seven figure business in only 6 years in Cleveland, Ohio then I don’t want to hear any excuses from those in more affluent cities.
One question you may ask is why are we so successful.
Now, this article is not meant to brag. It is meant to shed some light on what I believe is the #1 reason Renaissance-like businesses fail.
The reason: They don’t MARKET their business.
That’s it.
Sorry, but it’s true.
If you are a business owner then your number one job is Marketing!
More specifically Lead Generation.
Anyone know what that term means? I didn’t a few years ago.
Lead generation means always bringing a constant steady flow of new qualified prospects into your business.
There is a now somewhat popular slogan in the Fitness Business world called “Multiple Poles In The Water.”
This was coined by Billy Beck III who owns a fitness business in Florida (not a Renaissance Exercise model).
You see, Billy gets it and that’s why he is successful. I’ve met Billy and have masterminded with other non-Renaissance Exercise fitness business owners over the years in order to grow our business. (That was a gold nugget right there-mastermind)
You see, having multiple poles in the water is probably the most powerful fitness marketing lesson you’ll ever get.
To paraphrase one of my mentors (another gold nugget-mentor):
“The #1 goal for any marketer: you, me, anyone in business – is to consistently put marketing poles in the water, measure the results, and let the NUMBERS (most important of which is ROI) determine whether or not you continue using that pole in the water or not.
Done correctly and diligently, over time you WILL develop consistently reliable poles in the water…consistently reliable fitness marketing tactics that generate new clients, retain/re-sell existing clients, and reactivate lost clients.
Then your job is to KEEP DOING THOSE THINGS REGULARLY. Do not stop until the numbers tell you to.
And while you are consistently running your proven performers, you also never stop testing new poles in the water.
That, my friends, is the million dollar fitness business marketing plan in a nutshell.”
So if you’ve plateaued – if you want better results, faster – get the hell out of your comfort zone.
Stop doing what you’ve always done.
If you don’t do marketing START. If you are marketing, how many poles in the water do you have and are you measuring the outcomes (ROI)?
Remember, you can’t manage what you don’t measure.
I hope this doesn’t disappoint you to find out that your #1 job is MARKETING if you want to own a successful business.
It may not be as sexy as the training BUT it is an ABSOLUTE NECESSITY if you want to grow your business.
We can go into the details of what MARKETING actually is and should be to become successful but I will save that for another post if there is interest on your behalf.
So if this has resonated with you and you’d like to take this topic a step further please let us know by posting your thoughts below in the comments section.
And by all means show your love and click on the Like button as well!
We truly appreciate and welcome your feedback.
Until next time, ALWAYS BE MARKETING!
P.S. Please leave your comments below and let us know what other business related questions you may have and we’ll do our best to answer them!
{ 46 comments… read them below or add one }
Jeff,
This is GREAT information that is too often overlooked!! I look forward to more blogs.
Dwayne Wimmer
Vertex Fitness Personal Training Studio
Hi Dwayne,
Thanks for the comment!
Let’s face it most of us get into this business because we are passionate about exercise and changing people’s lives.
And you should be BUT people often fail because they won’t step outside their comfort zone and truly learn what it takes to run a successful business.
This isn’t for everyone but those that take the time and effort to learn and grow will not only help people along the way but also make a great living as well.
Jeff,
At Vertex Fitness we are looking for the TRUE Fitness Professional that either bring these skills with them or show the willingness to learn them. We do not hire staff to be personal trainers unless they demonstrate these skills. They could be the BEST Technician in the world, but if they can’t generate leads, sell them and then keep them as clients, they have VERT LITTLE value to the growth and existence of our studio. You are right, most of us get into this industry because we like to workout and/or want to help others workout. If one really want to help as many people as they can, we needed to teach them how to prospect and sell what we are doing, NOT just the idea and protocol. One can not be successful without clients, and they don’t just appear.
Dwayne Wimmer
Vertex Fitness Personal Training Studio
Dwayne,
While I agree with what you are saying to a degree, I also would like to put a twist on it.
I think one of the main reasons that folks have failed at this business over and over is because they expect their technicians to also be good sales people. It doesn’t work. You need both, but don’t expect it from the same people. Obviously from an owners standpoint this would be great as there is less overhead involved in having your employess multi-task, but ultimately you will comprimise the quality of your product.
I’m not going to go into detail about our systems, but what Jeff and Josh have hit on is bringing people on board who have unique talents and providing that individual an opportunity to let those talents flourish. You as an owner are always best served by surrounding yourself with folks who do the things you don’t do well.
I personally owe Josh and Jeff a HUMOUNGOUS amount of graditude. I’m the technician/poor sales person you’ve mentioned. They’ve given me an environment whereby I can focus on being an EVEN better technician without having to worry about doing something I’m not good at. You know what the result has been? I’m able to throw myself into my work, improve the other employees technically, and make the whole training aspect of things run more efficiently. Clients see this and as a result don’t fall off as much.
A technician needs a base level of customer service skills and the gusto to do what is necessary to make that person happy, but to expect them to go out and drum up business for the business is pushing it. One of those things will get comprimised at some point.
I’ve never met anyone as good at what they do as Jeff and Josh, and they both do different things!
Just food for thought.
Al
Hi Dwayne,
I agree 100% with Al on this. Find a great technician and let him excel. If you put him in a position in which he does not have the skill set (selling) then he may ultimately fail and that will only lead to frustration in the long term.
Don’t get me wrong if you can find someone who can do both then great but it has been my experience that this is very rare.
At Overload Fitness Josh and I are the rainmakers. Again, as the post states the # 1 Job as a BUSINESS OWNER is marketing NOT the instructor. Our instructor’s #1 job is RETENTION! We bring in the leads through marketing and us as owners close them and pass them onto our trainers to fullfill the service and change lives.
This allows the instructor to grow and excel just as Al as stated.
Believe me I wish it weren’t true but you as a business owner must take 100% responsibility for bringing new leads into your business.
We have used this model for almost 7 years and we have exploded in the worst economic environment in the US.
We don’t claim to have all of the answers (as some have alluded to) but we do know certain things to be true and this is one of them.
I know this may be a hard pill to swallow but again anything worth value in life is difficult at times. If you have systems in place and poles in the water to drive prospects into your marketing funnel then you will catch the fish and your business will grow!
Jeff,
Excellent post! A great reminder.
Hugh
Hugh,
We get so caught up in the day to day routine that we do need reminders at times of what it takes to be successful.
I’m happy to be a wake up call for those who need it.
Trust me I need one from time to time!
So very true, beeing passionate about training is one thing, beeing able to live on it another game.
When I train salespeople I always stress: having a good product toady means only one thing: Its a ticket to go and compete with all the other good products out there. And how many times in history havent a lesser product beaten a better product? What wins every time though is the best marketing & sales. Every time!
//Jonas
Jonas,
How right you are!
Marketing and sales is where it all starts.
You bring up another important point with regard to sales.
You can do all of the marketing in the world and bring in hundreds of qualified prospects but if you can’t close them and convert them to paying clients you might as well not bother marketing.
Therefore, you need a system in place that is reproducible each time that can help you to close the majority of those who are looking to see if you are a good fit for them.
If you have a sales and marketing system in place that works then that is more than half the battle to becoming successful.
I could do a whole post on the sales cycle but we’ll save that for another day.
This article couldn’t have been tailored more toward what I do and think about every day in school. As a marketing major, I spend a lot of time focusing on the concepts covered in this article. Most of these concepts are very easy to grasp when discussing things like consumer packaged goods. However, services (and especially services operating in niche markets) always end up being less black and white. I always enjoy hearing what practitioners have to say about these gray areas. Academics tend to overcomplicate most of these subjects.
I know a problem most businesses have is the ROI issue. Marketing activities often are hard to measure in terms of ROI. The impact of certain strategies can be easily seen while others don’t show up on paper so well. Perhaps you could discuss steps you’ve taken to measure the impact of those harder to quantify activities.
I am very intrigued by the Overload model, as it is so unique. I enjoy hearing anything and everything you have to say about it! Great post!
Travis,
I couldn’t agree with you more regarding academia overcomplicating things.
I have no formal training in business or marketing. I have no MBA BUT I have spent countless hours and money to learn from the very best in the industry and other industries.
With regard to our marketing in this niche you have to be able to measure your ROI. Therefore, direct response marketing works very well. Whether it’s direct mail, print or radio ads, website advertising you MUST be able to track where your leads are coming from to determine if the marketing medium is successful. If it is, run it again.
If it’s not then either tweak it and rerun it or move on.
But you must ALWAYS BE MARKETING!
This is a great post! I think we need more information like this coming out throughout the H.I.T./research based training community. There seems to be an underlying doubt or ignorance about how to market what we all know to be the best exercise protocol.
John,
I agree with you. As I stated in my article we already have an amazing USP just by utlizing the protocol we do.
This gives us a HUGE advantage in the marketplace.
The problem is that most business owners are stuck as technicians and won’t push themselves to become entrepreneurs.
There is so much to learn that most people get overwhelmed and never start. To those stuck in a stagnet business I would say pick ONE thing to focus on that is different than what you have been doing and just do that. Then do one more thing and then one more. Pretty soon you will have accomplished several projects that will slowly start to build your business and then once you hit a cirtical mass it will start to snow ball.
The key is to just get started. READY, FIRE, AIM!
Enjoyed the post Jeff,
I learned years ago, nothing happens until a sale is made.
For those that feel akward about making a sale or closing a sale, remember if you don’t stay in business no one benifits.
Every business of any kind will benifit from teaching as many employees as posible sales skills. If only to provide an understanding of what really drives the business.
Jeff,
I agree. Most people feel very uncomfortable with asking people for money.
I got over this real quick when it was explained to me by one of my mentors that it is my obligation to sell our service to those who can benefit from it.
Now if you have crappy product or service or are selling snake oil then that is another story.
Plus our systems pretty much sell themselves once a prospect experiences it for themselves.
Truly a great post, since I have called and emailed you guys inquiring as to what I need to do to get certified so I can start changing peoples lives here in Asheville at a fully (med ex & SS) equipped facility!
You gotta get outside of your comfort zone if you expect any gains, this relates to the workout, this relates to running a business, this relates to life.
==Scott==
I think the concept of Renaissance training to be a good one with lot’s of possibilities. It’s also a system that is hard to understand and learn from the outside where most of us stand. I’m seeing a lot of similarities between it and the golden age of Nautilus where Arthur Jones marketed his concept on many a bodybuilder with huge success. His system was radically different from the norm back then as is Renaissance training now. Lot’s of what Arthur Jones preached was true but much of his boast that his machines and methods would take muscle building to new heights never really materialized. His machines were a marvel and many of his methods sound but they didn’t bring about the huge change in muscle size and gains that his hype kept pushing. Bodybuilders lats didn’t double in size with the introduction of the pullover. Biceps didn’t grow any more overly enormous because of his machines with cams and full range of motion etc etc than they are being built today with plane old barbells.
I’m seeing alot of similarities between the Renaissance movement and Nautilus. They are great ideas with many possibilities but more than likely will not change the world as both seem to imply.
I know marketing can make and break a project and you really have to sell your product to be successful but much of it is just that, marketing/ hype. Not that I think you care about my advice but if I was to give it I’d say try not to go overboard with overly big claims that can’t really be substantiated yet. Jones made big claims about Nautilus that never materialized and so far as far as I know only Joshua is a good example of the results of Renaissance training. What I’m saying is don’t get behind the 8 ball with claims you can’t prove yet. I’m a guy who really wants to believe in your system and frankly I haven’t seen enough to make me even begin to think it’s as good as you guys seem to say it is. Before you get too far ahead of yourselves provide us out here with more proof that it’s all that you say it’s cracked up to be..
Scott says:”Lot’s of what Arthur Jones preached was true but much of his boast that his machines and methods would take muscle building to new heights never really materialized”
—————————————————————————
Never materialized?
I couldn’t disagree more, the technology that AJ brought to market produced strength gains never seen before. The results were so far superior to anything else that whatever is 2nd isn’t even worth mentioning.
The MedX machine, provided between 100% and 400% improvement for lumbar strength with only 1set of exercise per week over 12 week period.
The machines actually produced more than anyone could have ever predicted
In the January 1999 Archives of Physical Medicine and Rehabilitation, a research study demonstrated back35 of 38 low back surgical candidates recovered fully using MedX® technology, avoiding surgery altogether.
There are many studies that reveal that it did materialize and while the low back may respond faster, there is no reason that we cannot use this information to optimize adaptaion of any skeletal muscle.
I mention the lumbar because there are tools available to test it and the improvements in its function will do more for the function of man than any amount of biceps mass.
why would bodybuilders double in size?
why would their biceps become more enormous?
why would the body even allow for such an inefficient adaptation?
Did anyone ever stop to think that extreme muscularity may not be desirable or possible no matter the training application.
The technology can produce improvements in functional ability that cannot be matched. Muscular adaptations outside of the body’s genetic disposition will not occur under any circumstances outside of a hormone imbalance from introduction of exogenous hormone or myostatin gene deletion.
The idea that Medx, Nautilus or RenEx aren’t working or didn’t work because bodybuilders didn’t end up more swole is so beyond juvenile. Is this really how we measure the effectiveness of exercise? Do we look at genetic anomalies and drug addicts and suggest that the absolutely incredible jumps in strength, function and muscle mass that we see every day are somehow invalidated because our bodies have only adapted within their normal limits and not morphed in cartoon like characters?
…and WHAT outlandish claims have we made?
we say there is a better way…we say that there is a safer, faster and reproducible method for one to actualize their potential, but we never suggested that RenEx or anything else can make you something that you are not.
RENAISSANCE EXERCISE looks closer and removes the constraints… we are taking the work of those who came before us and using our collective brain power to optimize exercise application… that’s it.
Scott,
What I’m about to write may seem harsh, but so be it. For months now we’ve tried to spoon feed you as much information as one can over the internet, but for some reason that isn’t enough for you. You want this whole thing wrapped up in a nice, easy to understand package all without the pains of breaking your bank or costing you time. They have a name for things like that:unicorns. You know, the mythical creature with a horn that looks like a horse? In other words, it doesn’t exist.
I try to sympathize with those like yourself who are eager to learn, yet may not have the financial means to buy a line of equipment. Anybody who knows me(or Josh, or Gus, or Ken, or Jeff) knows that we ABUNDANTLEY give our time. If someone comes here to visit me, I will damn near exhaust myself trying to teach them this. I love this stuff more than words can express. Money isn’t an object for me, but reality tends to dictate otherwise. I’ve had to cough up my share of it to learn what I know. I believe in it and don’t need hokey scientific studies to prove or disprove it. It seems to me that you interpret our message as, “If you don’t have our equipment, you’re a neophyte greenhorn who stands no chance at ever building a pound of muscle.” If that is what you think, it would at least be consistent with the way you seem to portray our system as a whole.
The reality is that our system is and always will be a work in progress towards optimization. We are more of a think tank than a secret of exercise. We have our ideas about what works best based on the information available to us at the present moment, and we expect to evolve those as time passes. I’m sorry, but neither this or anything else of value will be put in a neat little, easy to understand package for you to understand.
I personally am beginning to find your request offensive. What you are in essence asking of us is,”Can you take all the time and money you all have spent over the years learning what you learn and teach me it in 5 minutes for FREE?” “Oh, and if you can’t, then what you are promoting is smoke and mirrors and doesn’t work.” No. Never. It is that mentality that is destroying this country. Truth be told, if I have to dumb things down that much and cater to the lowest common denominator, then I quit.
The silly thing is that this stuff isn’t that difficult to figure out. I teach people to do it EVERYDAY and have done so for the last 12 years. You’re comment about Josh being the only person who has been successful with this is asinine. I’m willing to bet dollars to doughnuts that I myself have more muscle than the vast majority of people over on Darden’s board and I’m no where near as large as Josh! What does that tell you about the ilk who hang out over there? You think they are an appropriate sample population to determine the effectiveness of a protocol? If I one day meet an alien and wanted to convince them why the human race would be an easy one to take over, I’d send them to Darden’s board. Self induced ADHD at its finest.
I have full confidence that what we do will work better for the average person than anything else out there IF it is applied properly. If you want to apply it properly it is going to cost you. Why do I say that? Because it cost me! What kind of huckster would tell someone that they could aquire all their knowledge for nothing? People with a cheapskate mentality tend to think that if it is going to be expensive, both in terms of time, money, and intellectual and emotional investment, than they are being ripped off. Actually it is quite the opposite. We aren’t trying to sell people a product, WE ARE TRYING TO SELL THEM A VALUED PROCESS!!! The value we place on it is equal to the value we’ve each personally invested.
If you had heard about us and truly been interested enough to do whatever it took to learn(let’s say like drive a measly six hours) Josh and I probably would have spent every waking hour you were here trying to share what we know. Instead you straddle the internet fence and speak down about what we do when you don’t quite “get it”. Did you ever stop to think that maybe, just maybe, it isn’t the protocol that you’re not getting, but the protocol isn’t getting you?
From the videos you have posted in the past, it looks like you have quite a bit of Nautilus machines in your house. You know what I would have done with those instead of ask, “How can I do RenEx on my machine as they are?” ? I’d be taking them apart and having a blast. What? You say that isn’t worth you’re time and money? Sorry, that isn’t our fault or the fault of what we are doing.
If the trip isn’t worth it to you(and a trip is all this is), don’t take it. But don’t for a second think that the trip in and of itself isn’t worth it.
Touche’
Al
lol…Al reminds me of the mild mannered Bruce Banner
“don’t make me angry. You wouldn’t like me when I’m angry. …”
HULK MAD NOW!!!!!
I’ve only seen Al slightly agitated maybe twice : )
I’ve driven 8 hours round trip to see Josh NUMEROUS times.
I’ve driven 18 hours round trip to see Gus in Toronto.
I’ve driven 36 hours round trip to see Ken in Florida twice.
All this time was worth it. Trust me. I don’t know how else to articulate this.
The first sign of a good sales man: Can identify what is a good product to sell and what products (snake oils for an example) not to sell.
At the end of the day, if you sell with the purpose to “take” the customers money and deliver nothing in return, change your work or your idea what selling is all about.
If you sell (or maybe even better, makes the client to wanna buy) somehting with the intention to make it better for the client, selling becomes easy and the money will come to you, not the other way round.
//jonas
i like this and couldn’t agree more.
focused on process over outcomes…just like the workout.
i think there is a universal lesson here 🙂
Hi Renaissance team,
Another great article and one that comes for me at a good time . I worked in the past for 2 years at a kieser (med-x franchise) facility and selling the product and thus getting new clients is THE GOAl of the instructors . You use your knowledge about training so they can experience the effect of training as best as possible and at the right moment you then start your sales talk (the first introduction training is for free). Everything you have done and said before that moment should built up to the point that the client almost has to sign up because of the experience. So indeed there is more than only knowledge about training . You also should understand that the amount of money that will be charged is NOT too much and you shouldn’t be afriad nor feel ashamed to put the price on the table .
At the moment I work at another facility and also have a gym at home with also nautilus equipment . Since about 3 months I more possibilities to and time to start training clients and I use my experience to convince prospects to start training with me . This is still very small scale but it is a start to maybe work for myself. The aerea where |I live in the netherlands belongs also to one of the poorest of my country with a decline in population . I have to figure out how I still can make an living from training people in such an situation . This post motivates me very much , so thamk you for posting.
I post regular on the body by science site and asked a few times specifics about implementing the protocol of renaissance exercise in my traing. If you don’t mind I post a few here . Maybe one of your team can answer them.
On the pull over and incline press I used the deep inroading as described in the superslow manual which means 2 more partial reps lasting about 10 seconds each. Do you advice these on non r.e equipment?
Since I don’t have the right (renaissance) equipment, do you agree that my negative phase has to be faster than the positive, say 5 seconds as mentioned in the superslow manual?
Do I understand it correct that only the start of a set (and not the start of every rep) last a few seconds? Why? As doug describes this is a major factor concerning the tempo of the following reps . Can I say that this has the same ( intended) effect as the pre exhaust principle ?
Last week I experienced the following below. Can you say that the way I experienced the exercise means that I’m on the right way the perfect my execution?
During the shoulder press from ,I guess , rep 3 I had to push instantly harder to match the rep tempo and very shortly after that there was this moment of uncontrolled very fast breathing together with shaking of arms and legs. Is this shaking the result of a large amount of adrenaline as a result of perceived thread to the body? Does fatigue by itself (lesser fibers available and not the output of adrenaline as a result of this) has this effect? This since my legs had no involvement during the exercise and I also experienced this in the past during the leg press with no control over the shaking arms while they where barely used to keep my body in the seat. Further, we do all experience this shaking during a perceived thread outside the training environment and without fatigue of muscle ( fight accident etc.) and it is better that we somehow control this respond during such events to have a better control over the outcome .
Thank you ,
ad
Ad,
Thanks for your questions and thanks for your patience. Sometimes it takes me a few days to be able to check in here.
You asked:”On the pull over and incline press I used the deep inroading as described in the superslow manual which means 2 more partial reps lasting about 10 seconds each. Do you advice these on non r.e equipment?
The deep inroading technique as described in Ken’s manual is probably the way to go on less than ideal equipment. If the device your using can be rigged up to create a solid end stop in the finished position, you may find that squeeze technique will go a long way in eliminateing the necessity of the partials.
You asked:”Since I don’t have the right (renaissance) equipment, do you agree that my negative phase has to be faster than the positive, say 5 seconds as mentioned in the superslow manual?
Yes. Your breathing will tell you if your resting during the negative. Every second of the set should feel as though it is getting harder. This includes the negative.
You asked:Do I understand it correct that only the start of a set (and not the start of every rep) last a few seconds? Why? As doug describes this is a major factor concerning the tempo of the following reps . Can I say that this has the same ( intended) effect as the pre exhaust principle ?
Yes. After the initial commencment the rate of speed should be consistent through the turnarounds. This isn’t the same as pre-exhaustion.
You asked:“During the shoulder press from ,I guess , rep 3 I had to push instantly harder to match the rep tempo and very shortly after that there was this moment of uncontrolled very fast breathing together with shaking of arms and legs. Is this shaking the result of a large amount of adrenaline as a result of perceived thread to the body? Does fatigue by itself (lesser fibers available and not the output of adrenaline as a result of this) has this effect? This since my legs had no involvement during the exercise and I also experienced this in the past during the leg press with no control over the shaking arms while they where barely used to keep my body in the seat. Further, we do all experience this shaking during a perceived thread outside the training environment and without fatigue of muscle ( fight accident etc.) and it is better that we somehow control this respond during such events to have a better control over the outcome .”
Interesting question. This probably deserves a post unto itself. In short, the reasons for what you state are multi factoral.
I hope this helps some.
Al
Hi Al,
Thank you for your answer .
Regarding the fact that the negative should also become harder I must say that it does but not that much as compared to the positive ( I feel indeed a relief in breathing at the earlier repetitions) . Since I have to use a faster speed in the negative this takes a bit more to control to not drop the weight at the turnaround especially when fatigue (shaking) becomes more pronounced. At the leg press for instance I had to push with all I got to make the positive but still could handle the negative although I couldn’t start the next rep so I pushed for 5 seconds without movement. I also have a dead stop but used it so that I couldn’t extend my legs completely and I understand that if I used it at the last rep that my fatigue would be deeper and the negative probably harder , but that would only be on the last repetition.( I tried the deadstop before and I feel a rest moment when I contract hard at that point if done during the earlier repetitions, so never used it on the last pepetition ).Would you say that in this situation I should use a heavier weight? Then I must push harder earlier in the set on the positive and this can lead to a shorter tul. What would be the best option ?
Is this slowly starting of a set for 3-5 seconds done to eliminate momentum at the start ?
Ad.
Hi renaissanceexercise team,
Would you please place my comment.
Thank you,
ad
Hi Al,
Thank you for your answer .
Regarding the fact that the negative should also become harder I must say that it does but not that much as compared to the positive ( I feel indeed a relief in breathing at the earlier repetitions) . Since I have to use a faster speed in the negative this takes a bit more to control to not drop the weight at the turnaround especially when fatigue (shaking) becomes more pronounced. At the leg press for instance I had to push with all I got to make the positive but still could handle the negative although I couldn’t start the next rep so I pushed for 5 seconds without movement. I also have a dead stop but used it so that I couldn’t extend my legs completely and I understand that if I used it at the last rep that my fatigue would be deeper and the negative probably harder , but that would only be on the last repetition.( I tried the deadstop before and I feel a rest moment when I contract hard at that point if done during the earlier repetitions, so never used it on the last pepetition ).Would you say that in this situation I should use a heavier weight? Then I must push harder earlier in the set on the positive and this can lead to a shorter tul. What would be the best option ?
Is this slowly starting of a set for 3-5 seconds done to eliminate momentum at the start ?
Ad.
It takes 3 to 5 seconds just to couple into the machine, finding all of your contact points and loading gradually will lead to a better connection throughout the set.
with any significant loads an attempt any faster will cause a harsh loading….kinda of a full body bracing compared to a targeted load up. This behavior can only lead to more morphing during the set.
i cannot comment on the load selection issue with your leg press example, perhaps a video may give me enough info to critique.
Hi Joshua,All,
I think it is possible for me to upload a video. Just opened an account on youtube .Now that’s a start.Also put my first video on it . There you can see my private facility where I train a few clients and where I do my work outs . There are also a few friends and family members that do their training on their own. The nautilus equipment was purchased the last few months with more to come.Next week-end I will make a long trip to pick up an nautilus multi exercise. Maybe my first training video will be uploaded next week-end but I first have to try the camera and see how to use it correct for the purpose of showing you what I do .This to make sure you can judge it as good as possible.
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ad congrats on the OME, please link us to your Youtube videos once they go up.
THANKS!
Thank you joshua.
If you go to youtube and type myogeen you will find my video.
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Jeff,
This is definitely a valuable topic.
I think you point out that there is a lot of commonality between the USP and any list of limitations that we might have from a business standpoint. That’s a big factor in misleading toward the idea of a bad business model. Fun easy social group entertainment is not a difficult sell. Thanks for the encouragement toward the success of making more people aware of a great alternative service.
I would be very interested in more on this, especially specific poles in the water that have been found to be good and bad.
Hi Ethan,
Thanks fot he comments!
As far as good and bad poles in the water I would have to go to a quote from a great marketer who I can’t recall the name right now :”I may not be able to show you 1 way to get 100 clients but I CAN show you 100 ways to get 1 client.”
The point is you have to have those mutliple poles to keep pulling leads.
Here are some that have proven successful for us:
Direct Mail
Advertorials
Articles in magaizines and online
Radio Ads
Strategic Alliances
Referral rewards programs (#1)
Corporate Accounts
Public Speaking
Kick start ads in magazines and online
SEO
This is just off of the top of my head.
Scott, seriously, you are a strange guy… After asking the same question over and over, getting easy to understand answers & Joshua/Al trying to help you for free, still complaning that “you dont get it”…and now this?
I dont think you should worry to much about your body, if I was you I would worry a lot more about my mind, thats probably what you should concentrate on to fix first…
//Jonas
After watching the videos where Al & Joshua trains, there is a big difference for how many seconds you guys squeeze the muscle at the top.
I experimented myself with “extended squeeze technique”, squeezing 6-10 sec, even at the compound movements. Liked a lot.
Now to the question: Why the difference & what difference will it make to the physic, choosing between how many sec you squeeze?
Training on Nautilus Nitro, which style would be first choice for max muscle you think?
//Jonas
Jonas,
Great question and hopefully I’ll be able to make my thought succinct enough for an upcoming blog post. The quick answer…..the seconds will change over time.
Al
Scott, seriously, you are a strange guy… After asking the same question over and over, getting easy to understand answers & Joshua/Al trying to help you for free, still complaning that “you dont get it”…and now this?
==Scott==
I know Joshua and Al have been very patient with my thick headedness and I know I have been a thorn in their side but I want to understand in the worst way and the only way for that to happen is to ask seemingly stupid questions. If Jones was sitting here today pushing Nautilus I would be putting forth the same type questions to him on things I had questions or doubts on and I’m am a huge Jones follower. Unlike many out there I am not a sheep, I don’t follow with out first being convinced of the truth. So far I’m not convinced yet. Notice I said,yet.. I’m getting closer to that goal but it hasn’t happened as yet.
Unfortunately I still don’t get many things about REN_EX and foremost on that list is how inactivating the valsalva can allow one to dig deeper inroads as compared to conventional methods where you grip and grit your teeth etc etc.. I assume you fully understand this so perhaps you might be the one that can help me understand this better??
Scott,
The ValSalva thing is extremely obvious once you experience continual muscular loading. I’m not quite sure how to simplify it. All you need to know is WHY the ValSalva manuever comes into play in the first place. It is an instinctual mechanism, and for the purspose of strength training discussion, it is designed to create a mechanical advantage in manuevering a load. In other words, it is what your body does to make the movement of a load easier from point A to point B. In creates intra abdominal pressure to distribute tension gloabally.
This isn’t a bad thing. In fact it is necessary if you are trying to hoist a heavy load of a trapped loved one, deadlift, strongman stuff, etc… All of that is fine, but if your intention is to locally fatigue a particular set of muscles in a very short period of time, then the ValSalva manuever works against that goal. The whole purpose of the ValSalva manuever is to PREVENT the accomplishment of that goal!!!!
We didn’t make this stuff up. You won’t find studies or literature on it because there is no reason to study it. This would be akin to trying to find a reason for your body recoiling the hand when it touches fire. It is a mechanism and therefore is pretty well understood. The reason you don’t find an explanation of it in weight training folklore is because most in the weight training community feel the goal of the activity is to move weight to build muscle. To just grossly move weight, the ValSalva manuever is necessary. We are approaching strength training from the standpoint of fatigue tension and for this purpose, we are looking for a way to load muscle directly, not unload it and shift it just to move weight. We use movement as a conduit to fatigue muscle, but it in and of itself is not the purpose. The ValSalva manuever is enacted because the purpose of the activity isn’t clear.
Think sprinting instead of weight lifting.
Al
superb explanation Mr.Coleman
==Scott==
I understand how the valsalva protects the body so to speak when trying to lift heavy loads but I just can’t see how negating it helps to dig deeper inroads? Last workout I did several experimental sets. Both sets I used the same pace but on set one set I did a fairly slow pace like 3 up and 3 down trying to breath as you guys say and ( I can’t go slower as I’m using old Nautilus not Hutchins machines and too slow doesn’t work on old Nautilus as you know), the second set later on I did the same type set but clenched my jaw and gripped harder as is with typical sets. I felt like I worked my biceps much harder with the second set where I clenched my jaw and gritted my teeth. I didn’t hold my breath on either set but on the second set my breathing was more like the breathing one would experience when trying to do a maximum attempt then a set of reps. Maybe as Chuck and Joshua say it’s all about the machine and I can’t possibly even start to experience deeper inroads the REN-EX way with out the perfect machine??
Scott,
I realize that a good bit of communication has already happened on this subject, and I hope I’m not wasting space with redundancy but I’m hoping maybe one more different description will help.
The primary obstacle that I see here is the use of proper form. Quality inroading is a result of effort put into producing force with proper muscle and joint function at such a level that cannot be sustained indefinitely. Accelerating to a 10 second positive pace requires less force than accelerating to a 3 second positive pace. Acceleration should be minimized, but it is required for movement to begin. If you are able to produce the force for the 3 second positive that you just described, then you are capable of producing the force that is required to perform a 10 second positive. Even though the machine requires you to vary your level of effort somewhat throughout the stroke, it will still require a more steady level than can be given at higher acceleration. Good form on a bad machine is better than bad form on a bad machine. Even on a perfect machine, quality inroading depends on the subjects will.
As for Val Salva, gripping and grimacing and all the other distractions that we might come up with; they do not contribute to strength used at the intended musculature. They are distractions that use up nervous system resources bringing about a perception of fatigue and failure which is not an accurate perception. We stop prematurely and therefore miss out on the opportunity for a better quality inroad. The comparison on the 2 different sets of an exercise that you did has more deceptive variables than I have space to point out causing you to feel worked harder. Perception is not a reliable indicator of anything.
My suggestion to you is concentrate on perfecting form; never stop perfecting form. If form is difficult at the proper pace, then lower the resistance and just practice the form for several weeks regardless of sensation and perception of inroading. Become accustomed to not allowing any movement that is not within proper form. It’s better to exert against a load, breath properly and concentrate even without movement resulting than it is to get the load to move whatever it takes. But by all means don’t practice so much as to over train.
Above, you replied “I don’t follow with out first being convinced of the truth.” If you really want to understand, then you will need to practice perfect form, which includes breathing, and gradually progress at inroading completely under control. Understanding won’t come outside of that.
Thanks for trying to help Ethan!! during the several months I tried to do REN-EX sets I did the best I could at concentrating on form and feel vrs moving more weight ( I’ve always cared more about feel than weight I could move) but in the end it just seemed I wasn’t gaining much if anything? I had what I considered great workouts and felt like I was inroading the muscle as much as possible with the less than perfect equipment that I have but in the end I hadn’t increased in size or weight I could move to the degree that I have done with other methods. You say Perception is not a reliable indicator of anything yet I don’t know of any other way of telling if I am making any progress other than my perceptions especially if there’s not really any visible sign of any progress??I think I’m pretty dang good at pushing my muscles to the brink and yes with the slow reps I did felt like it should have done something but in reality I I made little if any progress compared to faster more conventional reps/sets. I keep hearing that I need to go to Joshua’s to learn how to do this but that isn’t going to happen until I win the lottery or something, ha ha.. Believe me, I want it to work but so far it just doesn’t seem to? Maybe I need a internet Vulcan mind meld, ha ha…
Renaissance Team,
Is there a method or test to determine if your reached proper inroad? Is there such a thing as too much inroad?
Doug McGuff had a method of immediately dropping the weight by 50% and continue the set (drop set) to determine if your a deep inroder or not.
If I follow that method I can barely get one rep reguardless of cadence used,or equipment used.
Years ago, using the 80% of the one rep max method, using Nautilus Machines and 2/4 cadence with a pause in the contracted position ,my rep range came out to around 7 to 8 and TUL about 56 to 64 ceconds.
Does this mean that I’m a deep inroader and should I keep my TUL to around the 60 sec mark?
Now that I’m using more of the RenEx method and really trying to empty the tank, I believe that I’m inroading and reducing my strength levels so much, that I switched from 2X per week to every 4to 5 days.
IMO if any of the “set extenders” are even possible at the end of the set then the inroad wasn’t to the extent of what i’m used to or looking for.
Hello Jeff,
I really enjoyed the article. Where you stated… “On the pull over and incline press I used the deep inroading as described in the superslow manual” it triggered what I watched in Ultimate Exercise and the in roading theory that McGuff described for about 10 minutes in detail. It’s nice to read something and be able to reference it back. I also agree with the Marketing of the business. People aren’t just going to walk into your facility and say “where do I sign up”. You have to get out there, sell yourself and your product and explain why you like what you do. As Dwayne stated, you can train anyone on how to use and operate the equipment but people skills and being a go getter is something you must bring to the table and apply yourself. Great Article!